03-24-2009, 04:52 PM
HOF? Discuss.
One dick can poke an eye out. A hundred dicks can move mountains.
--Veryzer
--Veryzer
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Schilling Retires
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03-24-2009, 04:54 PM
Borderline.
If Hendry coaxes him out of retirement and he helps lead us to a World Series, he's a first-ballot guy. 
03-24-2009, 05:09 PM
<!--quoteo(post=24758:date=Mar 24 2009, 04:54 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Mar 24 2009, 04:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Borderline.
If Hendry coaxes him out of retirement and he helps lead us to a World Series, he's a first-ballot guy.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> I agree with you there. However, if Rapp were to sneeze while eating nachos in the stands during game 7 of the World Series spray the opposing batter in the face with nacho cheese causing him striking out for the final out to win it for the Cubs... you would consider him a first ballot hall of famer too. So I'm not sure how much I value your opinion here.
03-24-2009, 05:41 PM
<!--quoteo(post=24760:date=Mar 24 2009, 04:09 PM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ Mar 24 2009, 04:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=24758:date=Mar 24 2009, 04:54 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Mar 24 2009, 04:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Borderline.
If Hendry coaxes him out of retirement and he helps lead us to a World Series, he's a first-ballot guy.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> I agree with you there. However, if Rapp were to sneeze while eating nachos in the stands during game 7 of the World Series spray the opposing batter in the face with nacho cheese causing him striking out for the final out to win it for the Cubs... you would consider him a first ballot hall of famer too. So I'm not sure how much I value your opinion here. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Rapp would get in unopposed.
03-24-2009, 07:02 PM
I WISH HE'D GET HIS FAT RUMP IN SHAPE BY mid-season so as to help us out in ROCKTOBER.
My cap button has a mind of its own.
There's nothing better than to realize that the good things about youth don't end with youth itself. It's a matter of realizing that life can be renewed every day you get out of bed without baggage. It's tough to get there, but it's better than the dark thoughts. -Lance
03-24-2009, 07:10 PM
If he gets in the HOF then Santo would need to file a serious grievance. I mean, he has good numbers, and was on top of the game for a couple years, but I don't think he compares to Maddux or Pedro in terms of dominance over the same period. It's close, but Schilling's claim to fame is the postseason numbers, 11-2, 1.95 ERA IIRC.
I hate my pretentious sounding username too.
03-25-2009, 12:25 AM
Truth to tell, I don't see it.
His top 3 comps? Kevin Brown, Bob Welch, Orel Hershiser. I don't think his post-season "heroics" merit it. However, I'll never discount the Boston push. Hell, Rice got in (eventually).
One dick can poke an eye out. A hundred dicks can move mountains.
--Veryzer
03-25-2009, 03:54 AM
I'm gonna have to completely disagree with you guys on his HOF chances.
Destined: No, he wasn't as good as Maddux or Pedro. But if the criterion for Hall election was that you had to be as good as Maddux or Pedro, there would only be 8 or 9 pichers in the history of the sport who'd have a plaque. The fact is, Schilling's career was superior to about half the pitchers currently in the Hall. Compare Schilling's career to, say, Catfish Hunter's, or Don Drysdale's (obviously, both HOFers). Then throw in the fact that Schilling is aguably the greatest "big game" pitcher <i>who ever lived</i>... to me, that's Cooperstown material, big ego or not. VSlaw, why do you put post-season heroics in parentheses? ("heroics") Was there something un-legit about a guy going 11-2 in the playoffs and World Series, and winning 3 rings? Schilling's personality? Pure bush league. But his baseball career? HOF.
There's nothing better than to realize that the good things about youth don't end with youth itself. It's a matter of realizing that life can be renewed every day you get out of bed without baggage. It's tough to get there, but it's better than the dark thoughts. -Lance
03-25-2009, 08:11 AM
again, i agree with kb. to me he's a first ballot hall of famer.
(don drysdale, on the other hand, should not be in the hall of fame)
Wang.
03-25-2009, 10:41 AM
<!--quoteo(post=24831:date=Mar 25 2009, 07:11 AM:name=veryzer)-->QUOTE (veryzer @ Mar 25 2009, 07:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->again, i agree with kb. to me he's a first ballot hall of famer.
(don drysdale, on the other hand, should not be in the hall of fame)<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> Schilling is a first ballot HOFer, but Koufax doesn't belong? C'mon, dude.
03-25-2009, 10:42 AM
<!--quoteo(post=24827:date=Mar 25 2009, 02:54 AM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Mar 25 2009, 02:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'm gonna have to completely disagree with you guys on his HOF chances.
Destined: No, he wasn't as good as Maddux or Pedro. But if the criterion for Hall election was that you had to be as good as Maddux or Pedro, there would only be 8 or 9 pichers in the history of the sport who'd have a plaque. The fact is, Schilling's career was superior to about half the pitchers currently in the Hall. Compare Schilling's career to, say, Catfish Hunter's, or Don Drysdale's (obviously, both HOFers). Then throw in the fact that Schilling is aguably the greatest "big game" pitcher <i>who ever lived</i>... to me, that's Cooperstown material, big ego or not. VSlaw, why do you put post-season heroics in parentheses? ("heroics") Was there something un-legit about a guy going 11-2 in the playoffs and World Series, and winning 3 rings? Schilling's personality? Pure bush league. But his baseball career? HOF.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think he may be implying that the bloody sock thing was bullshit -- a stage prop to heighten the drama.
03-25-2009, 10:54 AM
I just don't buy the "step it up in the big game" concept. If anything, we're talking about a small sample size that can be used to make, say Steve Avery look HOF-worthy and Greg Maddux look like a chump.
Hunter is a perfect example; I'm sure if the A's and Yanks blow a couple more of those series, Catfish isn't smelling the Hall. I think we have a tendency to give way too much credibility to abstract qualities like the idea of a "gamer," which is a self-perpetuating concept. Bert Blyleven quietly pitched wonderfully on mostly awful teams, so he gets punished for not being on the big stage, no being known as a "gamer." But give 'em a bloody sock . . . Look, I'm sure Schilling will get in, and is you look at his body or work compared to Hunter and Drysdale, you'd hav a good case. However, this "big-game" myth is the same shit keeping our boy Ronny out of the Hall.
One dick can poke an eye out. A hundred dicks can move mountains.
--Veryzer
03-25-2009, 11:00 AM
<!--quoteo(post=24859:date=Mar 25 2009, 09:54 AM:name=VanSlawAndCottoCheese)-->QUOTE (VanSlawAndCottoCheese @ Mar 25 2009, 09:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I just don't buy the "step it up in the big game" concept. If anything, we're talking about a small sample size that can be used to make, say Steve Avery look HOF-worthy and Greg Maddux look like a chump.
Hunter is a perfect example; I'm sure if the A's and Yanks blow a couple more of those series, Catfish isn't smelling the Hall. I think we have a tendency to give way too much credibility to abstract qualities like the idea of a "gamer," which is a self-perpetuating concept. Bert Blyleven quietly pitched wonderfully on mostly awful teams, so he gets punished for not being on the big stage, no being known as a "gamer." But give 'em a bloody sock . . . Look, I'm sure Schilling will get in, and is you look at his body or work compared to Hunter and Drysdale, you'd hav a good case. However, this "big-game" myth is the same shit keeping our boy Ronny out of the Hall.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bow.gif[/img]
03-25-2009, 11:15 AM
Surely championships and postseason performance has to count for something though doesn't it? I mean winning championships is the ultimate goal for any athlete. Obviously baseball is a team game and you can't put stuff like that as a top criteria. Guys like Maddux and Pedro are getting in no matter what. But I have no problem with postseason performance and championships being used as a factor for a borderline guy.
I can agree that the term "gamer" and the bloody sock stuff is all bullshit. But especially as Chicago sports fans, watching Jordan for years and watching the Cubs blow every opportunity in our lives, I have to believe there are certain special players who for whatever reason really shine when it counts most and bloody socks aside, in big games, Schilling kicked ass.
03-25-2009, 11:40 AM
<!--quoteo(post=24862:date=Mar 25 2009, 11:15 AM:name=Fella)-->QUOTE (Fella @ Mar 25 2009, 11:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->But I have no problem with postseason performance and championships being used as a factor for a borderline guy.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I buy this okay. So, how much better would Kevin Brown's post-season stats (6-2, 4.19, 71K/31BB) need to be to get him in the Hall? Would he need to have gotten the win in a game 7?
One dick can poke an eye out. A hundred dicks can move mountains.
--Veryzer |
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