HOF

[bz]

Today, somehow David Ortiz enters the Hall of Fame ahead of Barry Bonds. Fail

[funkster]

Because HOF voters don't despise David Ortiz.

[MrSheps]

So is the assumption that Ortiz never juiced? Just did some googling and it's a little murky actually:

https://www.masslive.com/redsox/2022/01/...-says.html

[mrfelina]

What Funk said.

 

 

Gotta think Bonds and Clemons will get in someday, same with Schilling. 

 

3 stand-up dudes right there. Bonds is the lesser of those 3 evils. 

[1060Ivy]

Bonds and Clemens are HOF players but are not stand up dudes - they were some of the best that ever were - most likely with or without PEDs but are assholes as people

[funkster]

In fairness, Clemens was also pretty good before his PED days.

[Butcher]

In fairness, Clemens was also pretty good before his PED days.

 

If you look at Clemens's career, season by season, it's very weird. You can pinpoint the exact years he juiced. He had incredible seasons from 1986 through 1992. 7 truly great years that I assume weren't aided by steroids. Then he hit a wall in 1993 when he turned 30 and was very much human from 1993 through 1996. Then, when Boston was considering non-tendering him, he went to the Blue Jays in 1997 at age 34 and had maybe his best season ever. 21-7 with a 2.05 ERA and 292 Ks. Cy Young. Won another Cy Young the next year at age 35. He clearly hit the steroids hard in 1997-1998. Then he went to the Yankees and became human again. 14-10 with a 4.60 ERA at age 36. He won the Cy Young in 2001, which was absolute bullshit. Yeah, his record was 20-3, but he had a 3.51 ERA. Mussina, his teammate, had a much better season but voters were wowed by Clemens's record. Then he had a couple more somewhat decent seasons in NY. 4.35 ERA, 3.91 ERA. Nothing spectacular. Then he goes to Houston at age 41, goes 18-4 with a 2.98 ERA and wins another Cy Young. His age 42 season might have been even better. 13-8 with a 1.87 ERA.

 

It's like a roadmap of steroid use. If he didn't start juicing at age 34, he probably flames out right there and is either out of the game or just a middling number 3 or 4 starter. Or maybe they convert him to the bullpen. Steroids gave him almost another decade in the game with 2 more Cy Young awards at ages 38 and 41.

[1060Ivy]

While I agree that Clemens PED usage can clearly be tied to his performance and moving cities, the one item that you haven’t mentioned Clemens is his injury history

[funkster]

 

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="funkster" data-cid="360636" data-time="1643295671">
<div>
In fairness, Clemens was also pretty good before his PED days.

 

If you look at Clemens's career, season by season, it's very weird. You can pinpoint the exact years he juiced. He had incredible seasons from 1986 through 1992. 7 truly great years that I assume weren't aided by steroids. Then he hit a wall in 1993 when he turned 30 and was very much human from 1993 through 1996. Then, when Boston was considering non-tendering him, he went to the Blue Jays in 1997 at age 34 and had maybe his best season ever. 21-7 with a 2.05 ERA and 292 Ks. Cy Young. Won another Cy Young the next year at age 35. He clearly hit the steroids hard in 1997-1998. Then he went to the Yankees and became human again. 14-10 with a 4.60 ERA at age 36. He won the Cy Young in 2001, which was absolute bullshit. Yeah, his record was 20-3, but he had a 3.51 ERA. Mussina, his teammate, had a much better season but voters were wowed by Clemens's record. Then he had a couple more somewhat decent seasons in NY. 4.35 ERA, 3.91 ERA. Nothing spectacular. Then he goes to Houston at age 41, goes 18-4 with a 2.98 ERA and wins another Cy Young. His age 42 season might have been even better. 13-8 with a 1.87 ERA.

 

It's like a roadmap of steroid use. If he didn't start juicing at age 34, he probably flames out right there and is either out of the game or just a middling number 3 or 4 starter. Or maybe they convert him to the bullpen. Steroids gave him almost another decade in the game with 2 more Cy Young awards at ages 38 and 41.

 

</div>
</blockquote>
The Houston years were just ridiculous lol.  His body also became the human embodiment of a bulldog which was absurd, almost cartoonish.

[Butcher]

 

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Butcher" data-cid="360640" data-time="1643296862">
<div>
 

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="funkster" data-cid="360636" data-time="1643295671">
<div>
In fairness, Clemens was also pretty good before his PED days.

 

If you look at Clemens's career, season by season, it's very weird. You can pinpoint the exact years he juiced. He had incredible seasons from 1986 through 1992. 7 truly great years that I assume weren't aided by steroids. Then he hit a wall in 1993 when he turned 30 and was very much human from 1993 through 1996. Then, when Boston was considering non-tendering him, he went to the Blue Jays in 1997 at age 34 and had maybe his best season ever. 21-7 with a 2.05 ERA and 292 Ks. Cy Young. Won another Cy Young the next year at age 35. He clearly hit the steroids hard in 1997-1998. Then he went to the Yankees and became human again. 14-10 with a 4.60 ERA at age 36. He won the Cy Young in 2001, which was absolute bullshit. Yeah, his record was 20-3, but he had a 3.51 ERA. Mussina, his teammate, had a much better season but voters were wowed by Clemens's record. Then he had a couple more somewhat decent seasons in NY. 4.35 ERA, 3.91 ERA. Nothing spectacular. Then he goes to Houston at age 41, goes 18-4 with a 2.98 ERA and wins another Cy Young. His age 42 season might have been even better. 13-8 with a 1.87 ERA.

 

It's like a roadmap of steroid use. If he didn't start juicing at age 34, he probably flames out right there and is either out of the game or just a middling number 3 or 4 starter. Or maybe they convert him to the bullpen. Steroids gave him almost another decade in the game with 2 more Cy Young awards at ages 38 and 41.

 

</div>
</blockquote>
The Houston years were just ridiculous lol.  His body also became the human embodiment of a bulldog which was absurd, almost cartoonish.

 

</div>
</blockquote>
 



 

For sure. He looked like one of those cartoon hobos who wore a barrel over their bodies attached to suspenders. But the barrel was his actual torso.

[mrfelina]

Bonds and Clemens are HOF players but are not stand up dudes - they were some of the best that ever were - most likely with or without PEDs but are assholes as people

 

 

That was sarcasm man.

 

 

Not the second part where I said Bonds, in my opinion, is the lesser evil when standing with Clemons and Schilling--he's less of an asshole than those two motherfuckers. 

[1060Ivy]

Never could figure if Nolan Ryan was a good guy that was just “ultra” competitive or just a straight asshole as a person. Not certain if this documentary will assist in answering the question but appears interesting. Nolan helped define the classic fireball starter that every MLB team seeks.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/sports-satu...in-ventura

[VanSlawAndCottoCheese]

Congrats to the Crime Dog.

[Butcher]

I wish Murphy got in with McGriff.

[funkster]

I wish Murphy got in with McGriff.

Daniel?