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Vietnam, Ken Burns


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#31 funkster

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 08:30

They were reduced, not eliminated.

 

Agree to disagree.  I find the artistic choice to foreshadow what is to come interesting.  I expect it to be eliminated by the third or fourth episode since by then it will be covering 64-66.


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#32 jeffy

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 10:47

Catching up on the thread: As for the theory that we could've won under different leadership, it seems like wishful thinking. A sizable portion of the troops we were fighting by the late 60's were Chinese soldiers, so their reinforcements were essentially limitless.
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#33 1060Ivy

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 11:29

Some interesting points from mistakes in Vietnam noted in following article which should be evident in next episodes

The US stalemate strategy attempted to force the North Vietnamese to the negotiation table which doesn't work against an ideological, well resourced enemy. Here's Henry Kissinger, “We sought physical attrition; our opponents aimed for our psychological exhaustion. In the process we lost sight of one of the cardinal maxims of guerrilla war: The guerrilla wins if he does not lose. The conventional army loses if it does not win.”

While armed forces had to show/report progress on defeating the enemy so lies and exaggerations were distributed / reported.

Leaving "a disconnect in strategy, rhetoric, and reality"

The article ends with a quote by Walter Cronkite “It is increasingly clear to this reporter that the only rational way out then will be to negotiate, not as victors, but as an honorable people who lived up to their pledge to defend democracy, and did the best they could.”

https://mobile.nytim...ietnam-war.html
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#34 funkster

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Posted 24 September 2017 - 18:00

I've always thought my knowledge of the history of the conflict was pretty thorough, but not going to lie I never knew that Le Duan held as much sway as he did.


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#35 1984

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 02:26

Just started on the series.  Have to watch it alone (like baseball) because no one else in the family is interested in documentaries.

 

It's really well done and I appreciate hearing many Vietnamese voices, northerners and southerners.

 

I've been to Vietnam a few times. The place is capitalist as heck, athough I know agriculture is still centrally controlled. The Communist Party is still very powerful too.  I never sensed any bitterness towards Americans or anyone allied with them.  

 

 

I must also say that the music is outstanding,  


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#36 mrfelina

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Posted 07 October 2017 - 09:20

Amazing job I thought.

 

The mom, saying that she told her husband they would survive, they would love each other and be okay after their son was killed...then looked at the camera and said something like 'I don't know' as if she was saying they did not get by....really.  Moments like that during this series were incredibly powerful.

 

Those juxtaposed to the decisions made by the US government made one want to kill some of those generals and presidents.

 

Nixon's tapes and when they came out reveal good and well what a prejudiced, paranoid prick he was but this mini-series made him look even worse.  It's crazy when you compare the kind of character presidents like Nixon and Trump have with someone like President Obama.  I wonder if all those people who voted for him have ever listened to any of those tapes.

 

Great group of Vets they had telling their side.  So powerful.

 

I never really put together the whole idea of the divisiveness we see in our country now, and having it's modern day origin in Vietnam.  But those people who backed Daley and what he did in Chicago '68 and who backed the people who killed those kids at Kent State....that mindset is the same closed minded, pig headed way of looking at things we see today.  That same '50s mentality that Trump wants to bring back so fucking badly--it really hasn't changed much at all regarding that contingent of our country.

 

Utterly depressing and maddening to watch this series.  Mesmerizing too. The big thing I've always wondered, having not been around during this time, is if JFK would have withdrawn from that place had he lived and even more heart wrenching, how Vietnam would have looked had his brother not been killed and won that election.

 

Those questions just suck...they make me sick. 


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#37 1984

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 18:55

Yes, it's the what-ifs that drive you crazy in this series.  The domino theory just really screwed up everyone's mindset.  Without it, there would not be any US involvement.  Vietnam, the first domino, did fall and perhaps Cambodia and Laos fell after it but really those two backwaters never really figured strongly in influencing anyone.  Now, everyone is solidly capitalist.  So many lives lost because of the fear of the Communist bogeyman.


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