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Vietnam, Ken Burns


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#1 funkster

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Posted 17 September 2017 - 18:02

New Ken Burns Vietnam starts tonight.  Looks like first five episodes will be streaming here soon.  Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross soundtrack.


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#2 jstraw

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Posted 17 September 2017 - 18:05

Recording it.


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#3 funkster

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Posted 17 September 2017 - 19:35

Actually, looks like they've put up almost all the episodes online already.


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#4 Kid

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Posted 17 September 2017 - 19:39

It seems to be that they are putting the first 5 episodes online now.  The last 5 will be online next Sunday.  But I think they'll only be available to stream until 10/3.


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#5 funkster

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Posted 17 September 2017 - 20:06

That's what I saw on their website, but I could have sworn they had one up labeled as far as episode ten.  Watching the first now.


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#6 1060Ivy

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Posted 17 September 2017 - 21:49

The sequencing and timeline for episode is a bit non sequential. First episode contained Vietnamese history with French colonization period but also would fast forward to late 60's periodically. Guessing he wanted to keep American audience occupied so sprinkled in the 67/68 commentary from American and Vietnamese combatants to keep us interested.

Appears Burns is striving for balance with including US, North and South Vietnamese testimonials but guessing that he'll still get critics from all sides
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#7 jstraw

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 07:29

I'm going to be interested to see if he covers ground not covered in this excellent PBS 13-part Vietnam documentary from 1983:

 

https://en.wikipedia...evision_History


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#8 funkster

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 07:39

I don't know if its an attempt to keep people interested, seems like more of an artistic/aesthetic choice.  I think it's pretty effective at ramping up the drama, it kind of gives me the creeps.

 

 

I'd guess new scholarship since 83 will be covered.


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#9 jstraw

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 09:24

"My dearest mother...it's quiet tonight and the MREs are cold...but filling. What tomorrow may bring is uncertain..."


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#10 funkster

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 09:36

So, Maron had Burns on and he said that there's apparently a new debate raging amongst the scholars.  There's a group who insist that had Westmoreland been replaced by Abrams in 67, things would have gone differently.


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#11 jstraw

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 09:43

Interesting, and most certainly true. The question is "different, how?" And really, who can know? If the army were telling the politicians the truth, that would have been good...but would they have listened? They wouldn't have had Westmoreland's lies to repeat to the press. But the press was on the ground (and not "embedded"). They knew the lies were lies.


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#12 1060Ivy

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 10:16

Yes, the armed forces - primarily army - lied but also see the politicians as complicit in matter.

Seen as a 'which came first the chicken or the egg?' issue. Politicians demanded results and armed forces wanted more resources but some politicians wouldn't provide add'l resources without seeing results that US / South Vietnam was winning. McNamara decided body counts were the metric to track and so body counts magically became inflated so war appears to be winnable and nearing closing stages.

Politicians at fault for not verifying nor trusting what became evident to less partisan reports nor understanding the background/culture to conflict and drafting a less ambitious solution
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#13 funkster

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 10:24

I guess I should clarify, the actual debate is that Abrams would have changed the strategy so significantly that we would have decisively won the war.


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#14 jstraw

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 10:53

Well, that seems...unlikely. I should listen to the podcast.


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#15 funkster

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 11:44

Yeah, I'd have to do some reading on it for the specifics, but I'm not quite sure how anything would have changed? 


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