78 replies to this topic

[Andy]

2013: Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Craig Biggio, Curt Schilling, Sammy Sosa, Mike Piazza, Kenny Lofton, David Wells, Julio Franco, Shawn Green, Steve Finley, Roberto Hernandez, Jeff Cirillo, Jose Valentin, Reggie Sanders, Jeff Conine, Jose Mesa, Royce Clayton, Bob Wickman, Ryan Klesko, Aaron Sele, Woody Williams, Rondell White, Mike Lieberthal, Tony Batista, Mike Stanton, Sandy Alomar Jr., Damian Miller, Todd Walker

While we've already had McGwire held out, this is the first BIG year of eligible members who have PED's hanging over them. Chiefly, Bonds and Clemens, who are otherwise first ballot HOF'ers.

So what's your thoughts? Should they be voted in?

I think this year's crop has a number of guys that should be in. Since everyone in this era either did or had the opportunity to do steroids, I think they should be put a little under a microscope and ask whether without the steroids they'd be good enough.

For me, it's a Yes to Bonds, Clemens, and Piazza for sure. Biggio, Schilling and Sosa are borderline. Wells and Franco can go to the Hall of Very Good.

[jstraw]

You all know what I think. They can all [PED users] go to the Shoeless Joe, Charlie Hustle, Daddy-Why-Aren't-You-In-The-Hall of Fame. Fuck them.

[rok]

Woody Williams gets in. The others, No.

[veryzer]

2013: Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Craig Biggio, Curt Schilling, Sammy Sosa, Mike Piazza, Kenny Lofton, David Wells, Julio Franco, Shawn Green, Steve Finley, Roberto Hernandez, Jeff Cirillo, Jose Valentin, Reggie Sanders, Jeff Conine, Jose Mesa, Royce Clayton, Bob Wickman, Ryan Klesko, Aaron Sele, Woody Williams, Rondell White, Mike Lieberthal, Tony Batista, Mike Stanton, Sandy Alomar Jr., Damian Miller, Todd Walker

While we've already had McGwire held out, this is the first BIG year of eligible members who have PED's hanging over them. Chiefly, Bonds and Clemens, who are otherwise first ballot HOF'ers.

So what's your thoughts? Should they be voted in?

I think this year's crop has a number of guys that should be in. Since everyone in this era either did or had the opportunity to do steroids, I think they should be put a little under a microscope and ask whether without the steroids they'd be good enough.

For me, it's a Yes to Bonds, Clemens, and Piazza for sure. Biggio, Schilling and Sosa are borderline. Wells and Franco can go to the Hall of Very Good.

If Bonds, Clemens, and Piazza are for sure, then Biggio and Sosa are for sure too. I mean, how do Bonds and Clemens get in and not Sosa?

[rok]

Bonds and Clemens should have been automatic. Why they had to taint their legacies by becoming superhuman freaks is beyond me, but if they don't get in (they won't on 1st ballot at least), then the others aside from maybe Biggio, have no business being inducted. Schilling is borderline at best, and unless there is a postseason HOF, he should stay out. I'm torn on Piazza.

[BT]

Bonds and Clemens were in before any thought of their doping ever came up. You take away the last 5 years of their careers and they are still HOFs. Piazza built his career about power numbers in the steroid era. If you have a problem with steroids, it's tough to vote for him.

[Andy]

Bonds and Clemens, without steroids were HOF'ers. Sosa is a huge question mark without steroids. Schilling made a career out of being on good teams. So while his 11-2 mark in the post season is impressive, you have to be on a good team to get that opportunity. I think he'll get in, but he's borderline for me. Most of Biggio's stats are built from longevity, not being spectacular. He hit the 3K hit mark. That will probably be enough to get him into the Hall.

[Kid]

Sosa is not a question mark without steroids, he doesn't make the ballot without steroids. Prior to 1998, Sosa was a 1-time all-star who had never finished higher than 8th in the MVP race.

Through 1998, Bonds was a 8-time all star and 3-time MVP with 4 more top-5 MVP finishes.

Through 1998, Clemens was a 7-time all star, 4-time Cy Young Award winner with 3 more top-6 finishes, and a 1-time MVP (as a starting pitcher) with a 3rd place MVP finish as well.

I would vote no on Bonds and Clemens because of their overall negative impact on the game, but they had HOF numbers without steroids. Sosa wasn't even particularly good without steroids.

[jstraw]

If a player had HOF numbers before they juiced and yet don't belong in the hall because they pissed all over the game, then certainly players that wouldn't have HOF numbers without juicing don't even deserve consideration.

[Kid]

If a player had HOF numbers before they juiced and yet don't belong in the hall because they pissed all over the game, then certainly players that wouldn't have HOF numbers without juicing don't even deserve consideration.

I'm not sure if you were replying to me, but that's what I was saying.

[VanSlawAndCottoCheese]

There will have to be a major opinion shift about the impact of steroids on baseball for any of those suspected of using to get in the HOF. It'll probably come in time, but I wouldn't be surprised if it took the Veteran's Committee or some special ballot.

[veryzer]

To me, the fact that they were Hall Of Famers before they juiced is even more reason to keep them out. Plus, Clemens and Bonds are KNOWN users. Yes, we "know" Sosa used too, but he was never officially caught.

Either none of them deserve it, or all of them deserve it.

[Fella]

Yeah the funny thing is I bet Mike Piazza gets in first ballot, he was the best hitting catcher EVER so you can understand it, but he doesn't have the shadow of roids over him like Sosa does despite them playing in the same era and neither ever been officially caught.

[Fella]

BTW if it was up to me, Clemens, Bonds, McGwire, Sosa... all of them deserve to be in. They used roids but a lot of baseball was at the same time and they were still the very best of their eras. A lot of Football players from the 80's were roiding too and none of them got left out for it.. I'm also pretty positive known roiders like Andy Pettitte and A-Rod will get in easily. Clemens/Bonds/Sosa/McGwire is just the group of guys who have been in the crosshairs for sports roiding, but I don't think they deserve to be punished anymore than anyone else. They were amazing players...... and it didn't ruin baseball, if anything its more popular now.

[KBwsb]

1. The Bonds-Clemens-Sosa thing is gonna be the biggest story is sports for the next few months. Not thrilled about that.

2. Piazza does have steroid suspicions dogging him. Lots of them. More than Bagwell, and it's kept Bagwell out so far.

3. Not sure I agree with some of you who say that Sosa sucked ass as a player, popped a few roids, then turned into Mickey Mantle. If roids had that kind of effect, then every Neifi Perez and Brady Anderson would be winning MVP's and swatting 60+ homers at will. But I DO think that the drugs helped very good players turn into great players, and I'm not sure I'm cool with that.

4. Please stop comparing the crimes of Shoeless Joe and Pete Rose to PED users. It's like comparing armed robbery to shoplifting. Players used the Cream (or whatever) to make them play better, not to purposely lose ballgames. Drastic difference. Like I said, I'm not saying it was a fine thing to do, but I AM saying that it's not at all different from Gaylord Perry throwing a spitball for two straight decades, or Willie Mays gobbling amphetamines like Skittles. Are those guys in the Hall? Of course. Where's the outrage in those cases?